Discuss Theology

Grudem and Piper complain about the apparent oversight of Gretchen Hull to interact with their position.   Hey boys, she grew up totally surrounded by “your position”.  The whole context of her book is a response to people who hold it.

An unusual twist from CBMW. Maybe re-thinking her roots would be a good thing.  It is really a lot like reading the Bible in historical context I think.
{7}This was the most frustrating thing about reading Gretchen Gaebelein Hull’s Equal to Serve. Literally nowhere did she interact with a vision of manhood and womanhood like ours-one that focuses on a man’s primary responsibility to lead, not on the quest for power or control or dominance or supremacy. She consistently described “patriarchalism” and “traditionalism” as “preoccupied with [rigid, artificial] role playing” (pp. 34, 119, 128), propagating “male supremacy” (p. 84), ascribing less worth and dignity to women (p. 87), claiming that “one person must always be dominant” (pp. 104, 197), espousing “rigid vocational roles” and “rigid spheres of ministry” (p. 124), endorsing a “narrow female role” (p. 125), calling homemakers “non-working” mothers (p. 157), saying “child-related duties” belong only to the woman (p. 160), teaching a “chain of command” (p. 192), recommending that men “never submit” (p. 194), equating submitting with “knuckling under” (p. 195), seeking for men an “exalted position” (p. 198), equating headship with “power over” and having a “power-oriented” view of headship (pp. 205-206), returning “women to the nunnery” (p. 289) and excluding them from ministry (p. 222). Our point is not that there haven’t been people who are guilty of all those things. Our point is that you cannot establish your case by implying yours is the only good alternative to the rejected view. This fallacy of the excluded middle runs throughout the CBE declaration, as we will see.–Grudem and Piper frustrated with Gretchen Hull’s book, complementarian

We can throw a huge monkey wrench into the missions endeavor worldwide by heaping guilt on single women who go out, sacrifice and start churches. They have no business leading, this is rebellion and this is the end of missions as well. More than 50% of missionaries [especially in difficult places] are women and many of them single women. Moral Rebellion and missionaries, complementarian

I am reading “Rallying the Really Human Things” by Vigen Guroin. He has a wonderful chapter entitled “Why Should Businessmen read Great Literature”. The chapter, in my opinion, is worth the cost of the book. Below is a quote from the book, which I hope wets your appetite for the whole work.

“In every society, power must be humanized and used morally in order that free and civilized life might prosper. And in a commercial society, businessmen and businesswomen wield especially great power and are frequently called into roles of civil and political leadership. This fact makes the question that serves as this chapter’s title especially significant. A half-century ago, Russell Kirk, author of The Conservative Mind, penned as article titled “The Inhumane Businessman.” Kirk did not argue that businessmen are, as a lot, more inhumane, mean, or cruel than the average bank clerk, schoolteacher, or construction worker. But he was persuaded that businessmen are “deficient in the disciplines which nurture sound imagination and strong moral character,” and that this does not augur well for the nation.”

“Kirk lamented the turn to business education in our colleges and universities, which, he argued, contributes to the cultural illiteracy of the business class. This trend toward specialized business education accelerated during the concluding decades of the twentieth century, leaving fewer and fewer of those engaged in business educated in the liberal arts. That is principal reason why businessmen so often do no read great literature.”

Rallying the Really Human Things, Vigen Guroian, pg. 177-178

I have also notice the specializing tendency of our schools. There was a day when people carried the title, “Jack of all trades” as a badge of honor. May be he was not as well versed in a specific task, but he understood the whole. Let me give an illustration.

A scientist of microbiology spends his day in his specialty by look for long hours in his microscope. He sees the small particles and can name them one by one. He can’t talk to others about his findings because they would not understand. During the day his shoe becomes untied, but with his eye to the scope he does not know. Finally the day comes to an end and he must go home. As he turns to walk away he trips and falls flat on his face…he never knew what was coming.

This is our modern businessman or manager. Versed in business, he has no ability to enjoy life outside his work. You can see him…he is the one on vacation with the computer in his lap and cell phone in his ear. Steve

By Patricia ReaneyLONDON (Reuters) – An international team of scientists have discovered 4.1 million year old fossils in eastern Ethiopia that fill a missing gap in human evolution.

The teeth and bones belong to a primitive species of Australopithecus known as Au. anamensis, an ape-man creature that walked on two legs.

The Australopithecus genus is thought to be an ancestor of modern humans. Seven separate species have been named. Au. anamensis is the most primitive.  On Genesis, Creation and evolution

I remember hearing Gordon Fee mention that movements born out of Holy spirit revivalism always pressed for equality in the ministry based on gifting and not on gender. Gordon-Conwell days, complementarian and egalitarian discussion

Writing in U.S. News & World Report, John Leo had this to say in defense of voting based upon religious values:

I am struggling to understand the “don’t impose your values” argument. According to this popular belief, it is wrong, and perhaps dangerous, to vote your moral convictions unless everybody else already shares them. Of course if everybody already shared them, no imposition would be necessary. Nobody ever explains exactly what constitutes an offense in voting one’s values, but the complaints appear to be aimed almost solely at conservative Christians, who are viewed as divisive when they try to “force their religious opinions on us.” But as UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh writes, “That’s what most lawmaking is—trying to turn one’s opinions on moral or pragmatic subjects into law.”

Those who think Christians should keep their moral views to themselves, it seems to me, are logically bound to deplore many praiseworthy causes, including the abolition movement, which was mostly the work of the evangelical churches courageously applying Christian ideas of equality to the entrenched institution of slavery. The slave owners, by the way, frequently used “don’t impose your values” arguments, contending that whether they owned blacks or not was a personal and private decision and therefore nobody else’s business. [taken from Preachingtoday.com]

Paula lived from 347-404 a.d.  Widowed with 5 kids in her thirties.  Helped Jerome with translation.  She was greatly respected in the early church and Jerome dedicated his translation of many Bible books to her.  Six bishops carried her body to its burial place at her funeral. Was she a complementarian?  Who knows.

The Crime of Our New Century…

The Sudanese Government, using Arab “Janjaweed” militias, its air force, and organized starvation, is systematically killing the black Sudanese of Darfur.[from www.Darfurgenocide.org]

The picture of the boy killed (left) shows what is happening in Darfur. Over a million people, driven from their homes, now face death from starvation and disease as the Government and militias attempt to prevent humanitarian aid from reaching them. The same forces have destroyed the people of Darfur’s villages and crops, and poisoned their water supplies, and they continue to murder, rape and terrorize.

This site’s sole purpose is to try to save lives by helping stop the genocide in Darfur.

It empowers you to take smart, strategic actions to compel those in power to act through international petitions or local events. It provides access to the best, most relevant and most upto date information available. You can also give online to our Advocacy Fund.

The situation in Darfur is dire. The choice we face simple. Act now to help save lives and stop the genocide, or watch as another chapter of injustice, cruelty and tragedy gets added to human history. Let’s learn the bloody lessons of Rwanda, the Holocaust, and Armenia. Lets make sure that 2005 is not a year that we remember and regret.

HELP BUILD A NEW SUDAN:
Support our Darfur Advocacy Fund and help the people of Darfur win the peace and justice they demand. Donate Here

Darfurgenocide.org provides you with information and opportunities to take action to end the genocide and suffering in Darfur, Sudan.

There are over over 20 million posts when you google in “Trinity” and “Church”.  I suggest that this is central to Christianity.  Poker has 104 million posts.  [I suppose, we see the mindset of many on the web].  How important is “Trinity” in the church? Trinitarian theology